Ground Rents Income Fund Live Discussion

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Fruit_Batman 13 Jul 2018

Beetham Tower Manchester A friend of mine owns an apartment in Beetham Tower Manchester and says that this company have a large claim progressing against Carillion relating to the windows of the building. Anyone heard anything else?.

Fruit Batman 22 Dec 2017

Turkeys Voting for Christmas? Trying to put a positive spin on moves which undermine the business model?.

Albino Investor 02 Aug 2017

Re: Sentiment Nice response 2nd August entitled "Corporate Update" ...my view has changed to a strong buy / hold

Albino Investor 02 Aug 2017

Excellent news re Ground Rents Nice to see that the Board sought to try and defuse the situation regarding upward revaluations of ground rents . They seem to have made a decent and sensible set of disclosures (see "News 02/08/2017" for details.Whilst there has been some small adjustments made for a drop in value, the overall effects of the latest "scandal" is modest ... and none of the rents are subject to 10year doubling review patterns as now seem to be hitting Taylor Woodrow.The NAV of the portfolio is still calculated at 132p against a share price of 122p so there is comfort in that as well.A good long term hold seems likely with a respectable income to boot.

MaX ProfOrdiS 02 Aug 2017

RNS Today's RNS should go a long way to dispelling concerns about GRIO.

Fruit Batman 01 Aug 2017

Re: Times IMHO it is the peripheral practices around ground rents that will be chipped away by public opinion and Government action.For example, charging buy-to-let landlords notice fees every time they rent out their property (if the lease does not allow a waiver on sub-leases less than 21 years). Also - excessive fees for answering 'pre-sales enquiries' when owners are selling and their solicitor is conducting searches.This income is viewed as bonus income to the ground rent investor but is open to abuse and is coming under scrutiny.

MaX ProfOrdiS 29 Jul 2017

Times Small article in the Times today (I think it was in the Personal Finance Section).The article covered the leasehold furore in general and commented on GRIO, amongst others involved in the sector, in a fair amount of detail (probably because it's listed and more information is available). The article did somewhat tar GRIO to start with (IMHO), given that only 17% of its portfolio is affected by these doubling leases, by seeming to imply that all of GRIO's leases were affected BUT it finished on quite a positive noteIt quoted an analyst suggesting (bizarrely) that any ban on new leasehold builds could actually see existing leasehold properties increasing in market value. It didn't go on to explain how that might come about (I guess demand and scarcity might have some roll to play) but, all in all, it would seem to suggest that the price fall might have bottomed. There might have been a knee jerk sell off but buyers may now start to reappear once they've assessed the actual impact.I'd be tempted to take a further punt (as a yield play) if my money wasn't all tied up elsewhere at present.

MaX ProfOrdiS 27 Jul 2017

Re: Sentiment We may have bottomed for the time being; there were even some buys today!

MaX ProfOrdiS 27 Jul 2017

Re: Interest Rates Hi FB,I understand your concern about interest rate increases but you forget that virtually all GRIO's portfolio is hedged (either through RPI, fixed or doubling leases; the doubling may be re-negotiated but will probably convert to RPI) and so any interest rate increases should be more than matched by increases in rents (even worst case interest rate forecasts are stiil less than current RPI); these aren't fixed coupon treasury bonds.

Fruit Batman 27 Jul 2017

Interest Rates Ground rent capital values work counter-cyclical to interest rates - which is why they have been attractive for the last 5-10 years against low interest rates. Any interest rate increases will start to eat away at the capital value.It is not just ground rents that the Government could go against - it is the wide spread practice of charging (often punitive) fees for sub-letting and household extensions / flat alterations, etc. These types of abuses of the leasehold system are coming under increasing scrutiny from the public.

MaX ProfOrdiS 26 Jul 2017

Re: Sentiment I think this will blow over. Action will have to be taken to sort out these doubling leases but I think the rest is a lot of hot hair (the government has got to act to stop the worst excesses but it has to be careful if it doesn't want to destabilise the housing market; leasehold houses exist because buyers can't afford the additional cost of the freehold and any move to ban new leasehold houses could have unintended consequences for the whole market). There may be an impact on the valuation of GRIO's portfolio (£5 to £6m at the last estimate) but it is unlikely to affected by any ban, in any event (it primarily deals in multiple occupation or commercial). There may be more regulation but I suspect GRIO will still be a good yield play. I wouldn't be surprised to see people buying in for the increased yield before long.

Albino Investor 26 Jul 2017

Sentiment I think the key element here is investor sentiment against potential implosion. Unless the company addresses the issues regarding individual private dwelling houses it may (or may not) have invested in (as opposed to buildings / developments in multiple occupation) then I fear that this share will suffer for considerable time. Personally I saw this as a reasonable company investing for the long term in a typical mix of leasehold properties where the owners wanted out. A long term steady income generator without too much risk and a modest long term return.I am now down 17% in less than 4 months with no good news horizons that I can foresee. Can anyone give me hope ?My weak sell might be a strong sell without hope!

MaX ProfOrdiS 26 Jul 2017

Re: Residential ground rent scandal ? Ri... Re-writing the contracts isn't really the issue (landlords may well be forced to do so), it's the potential impact on the market values of the freehold reversions that would result (I believe that GRIO has already intimated that this could reduce the market values of the affected properties by about £6m). I think the main concern now is the government following thru with its threat to outlaw new build leaseholds and the potential impact that might have on GRIO (probably negligible; can't see it being applied to multiple tenancy properties) and also regulation to tighten up what freeholders can charge (this is probably long overdue).

jonwig1 26 Jul 2017

Re: Residential ground rent scandal ? Ri... It occurs to me that probably none of their 10-yr doubling clauses have actually been triggered yet, as their properties appear to be new-build. I can't see anny reason why the gr clauses can't be rewritten to something more palatable such as inflation linking. The share price today seems to be discounting quite a lot of bad news to come!

MaX ProfOrdiS 26 Jul 2017

Re: Residential ground rent scandal ? Ri... I think you'll find that's exactly what they did do in their last statement a month or two ag

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